Interestingly a lot of people call me and ask if they can get a loan and trade after doing my course. After-all a personal loan is given at 12-14% interest and if they can make 24-36% per year then they can take this profit home after paying back the loan.
Well sounds good but really a bad idea. Go back to history – name 1 person who took a personal loan or borrowed money from general public/banks/lending companies on false promises of great returns, and converted it into stellar returns from the stock markets – returned back the loan and lived happily ever after. No, not a single person has ever done that. What gives you the confidence that you can?
In fact you may have heard a lot of Scams and failures on these lines but not a single success story. Some are actually behind bars.
Why? Why do humans fail to convert a loan or borrowed money into stock market success story? We will explore in this article.
Well here is one email I got that inspired me to write this article. Email slightly edited to hide sensitive information.
Dear Sir,
I subscribed to your conservative strategy course 2 months back. I find myself very lucky that I could associate with you through the strategy you shared after all your hard work & lessons learned. On a serious note subscribing to TheOptionCourse.com seems to be turning point of my life as you gave us the direction. When I used to trade 1 or 2 lots I felt your nifty conservative strategy useless as ROI looked very low but when I started paper trade with 10 to 20 lots then I came to know how powerful this strategy is to generate regular income.
I need your advise on my below plan, Please give your advise as it could be make or break strategy for me.
1) I am planning to have personal loan of 10 lakhs @ 12.99% interest rate which I am offered from ICICI bank.
2) With this amount I am planning to build portfolio using entire 10 lakhs into Axis bank, HDFC, SBI, Coal India, TCS, Infosys, NTPC & L&T at current price with equal fund allocation before 15th Dec 2015.
3) Then using collateral value (approx 8 lakhs) I want to trade every month using below conservative nifty strategy-1.
[Email edited here as the Strategy 1 of the course was written here. However this gave me almost an attack when this person told me that he will trade my strategy AS IT IS BUT WITHOUT PROTECTION (THE HEDGE) – to generate MORE returns.
Here is the main reason why traders fail to convert loans into spectacular returns from stock markets
Since he has to pay 12.99% as interest a 3% return is less, which is quite correct, BUT THIS IS WHY traders all around the world lose money trading.
There is a limit to what you can make trading in the stock markets. Once that is achieved, the mind set once they start making money changes pretty fast to how to trade more aggressively and make money. The “I can never go wrong” mindset comes in. And this is exactly where things starts to change dramatically. Note that the problem is not with their mindsets – the stock markets does not know you or your mindset – all it knows is the trade you have taken. The problem is changing the style of the trade from may be conservative or disciplined trading to very aggressive trading.
With aggressive trading let me guarantee you this – the best of the best traders will get stuck in one bad trades out of 10 trades they take – and the spiral of losses begins. Even he loses 1% trading aggressively remember that he has to return 12.99%. He has already lost 12.99%, now 1% more. This is 14% money already lost. This keeps playing in his mind – to get that he trades even more aggressively this time with more risk and loses even more money, until his account shows a zero balance, or he gets a margin call.
On social front when he loses money the trader gets into a reclusive mode and sometimes even avoids his own family. He knows that his dream of being extremely rich is over and he does not want to face the reality. That’s the reason he starts avoiding everyone, and gets irritated on everything. This is where he recognizes that he did a huge mistake. End result – some go to jail, some suicide, some check into counselling centers.
Aggressive trading means there can be a loss of 20-25% in a single trade. Well there can be gains as well but when do aggressive traders wait for a 25% gains?
However loss of 20% is quite common if there is no hedging. One single loss and his game is over for good.]
4) If Nifty still moves further 200 points then I will stop loss that side options & will enter into your Conservative Strategy-2. I made this modification to gain around 4 to 4.5% per month using conservative strategy. Only risk would be if Nifty give one side moves of around 300 to 400 points in one day then I will in huge loss.
Another bad modification to my strategies which is not required. Modifications are OK as long as there is a strong logic behind it and protections are in place.
So you already know that there can be huge losses, still you want to try. WHY?
I need your advise on below points:
A) Whether risk reward would be favorable on point no 4.
B) Whether should I use entire capital of 8 Lacs to buy this 8 stocks at current price or should I buy in three steps. Because current level seems very attractive valuations for all these stocks.
C) Do you have any view on my stock selection, I mean will it be balanced portfolio or is any stock you feel to eliminate?
D) In one of your articles on How to become smart trader, you mentioned that why not earn more than 3% when you are fully Hedged. Can you please suggest is there any modified version of Strategy-1 which does have little risk but we can earn upto 4 to 5%. This because EMI for my personal loan would be Rs. 22,700 & I am planning to earn 35,000 from 8 lacs every month using conservative strategy.
E) No one would advise taking personal loan to trade in stock market but still I am gaining confidence in earning consistently through nifty conservative strategy so what is your view on taking personal loan for trading conservative strategy in stock market?
Request for your advice/comment on above points to fight back all my past losses in stock market & Your advise does really have lots of weight-age on my decision making.
Thanks a lot for your valuable support.
Thanks & Regards,
Dhiren
Mr. Dhiren, you got my answer. DO NOT take a personal loan and trade especially aggressively – you will play with fire. If you lost money trading then you lost it. Remember that when you are making money now please do not think that you are “getting back” your money from the stock markets. This sounds like revenge and revenges do not work in stock markets. Think that you learned from your past mistakes and are now doing better in the business, that’s it.
Now lets discuss your points, point by point.
>> 1) I am planning to have personal loan of 10 lacs @ 12.99% interest rate which I am offered from ICICI bank.
Great. But other than trading or investing in stock markets is there any reason? If not you are better off without the loan. You will have 10 lacs at 12.99% rate for nothing.
>> 2) With this amount I am planning to build portfolio using entire 10 lacs into Axis bank, HDFC, SBI, Coal India, TCS, Infosys, NTPC & L&T at current price with equal fund allocation before 15Th Dec 2015.
Stocks looks good for the long term but still investing in stocks at one go is NOT advisable. Read my articles on investing in Axis Bank, ICICI bank and Sun pharma. In none of these articles I have told buy at one go. I have always maintained that start buying and keep some cash to buy more at a 10% drop – else sell to book profits ar 10-12%.
All 10 lacs investing at 1 go in stocks markets, even if in great companies is a bad idea. Markets are currently falling and we do not know when they will bottom out. Trying to time the stock markets is the biggest mistake of investing. No doubt why option buyers lose.
>> 3) Then using collateral value (approx 8 Lacs) I want to trade every month using below conservative nifty strategy-1.
Strategy 1 – the most conservative strategy in my course is intended to be traded with YOUR MONEY (the money that you own), not your parents or friends or money that you got from a loan. The real essence of the strategy is that you trade peacefully – not with any kinds of stress or panic in mind. On top of that you are tweaking the conservative strategy to become an aggressive strategy. Once you do not buy hedge, it is no more the same strategy.
>> 4) If Nifty still moves further 200 points then I will stop loss that side options & will enter into your Conservative Strategy-2. I made this modification to gain around 4 to 4.5% per month using conservative strategy. Only risk would be if Nifty give one side moves of around 300 to 400 points in one day then I will in huge loss.
Really? Conservative Strategy-2 is not made to be traded like that. You are making modifications to lose 4-4.5% and not gain. Yes a sudden 200-300 points move does come and while traders trading it conservatively will lose only 1-2%, your loss will be at 5-6%. And do not forget that its a loan – so your losses are even more.
>> A) Whether risk reward would be favorable on point no 4.
No. In my book trading without hedge is NO trade. Risk reward is BAD on a 10 lakh account.
>> B) Whether should I use entire capital of 8 Lacs to buy this 8 stocks at current price or should I buy in three steps. Because current level seems very attractive valuations for all these stocks.
Read This – How To Invest In Stocks:
Three four steps to buy stocks is good BUT you cannot and should not do it on entire corpus that you want to invest in markets. At any give time, you can invest in a couple of stocks – not 3 or more. Moreover no stock should be allocated more than 10% of your trading capital. In fact the less the better, but no less than 5%, because if any stock performs its profits should have a meaningful impact on your whole portfolio – else if you allocate too less to any stock even if it becomes a multi-bagger your portfolio will not show a meaningful return.
So basically if you know a little math, you stock portfolio should not contain less that 10 or more than 20 stocks. And investment has to be done gradually NOT at a single time. If possible invest the entire corpus can be into to a liquid fund generating 8% return and take even money out every-moth and invest in any one or two of the stock in your list. Once you have booked profits in any stock, you can wait for its fall to invest again or research another stock.
Remember that the number of shares can differ according to the price BUT the money invested should be the same for entire year.
Looks like I am telling too much for free. Let me stop here. 🙂
>> C) Do you have any view on my stock selection, I mean will it be balanced portfolio or is any stock you feel to eliminate?
Now this is an interesting question. I am an options guy, not a stock guy. I have a close list of 10 stocks that I follow. 20-30% change every year. And these are stocks to be traded/invested for medium to long term. The risk is mine – so I do not tell any one asking for advice on stocks. Barring a few stock investing ideas in my blog I do not usually recommend any stock, until there is a very strong reason to do so.
Frankly, I do not know if you are following any risk-management methods. So someone may invest his entire savings in one of the stocks I recommend and if that stock does not perform – he will scold me for giving wrong information. In reality the trouble was not following the risk-management principals. Just like how it has worked for others – my stock portfolio has worked the same – some returned great, some I had to exit in losses. People who have taken my course know that I do not invest stock and forget – I trade the conservative stock strategy on it so all in all even if the stock does not perform I can make money. However you may not know the strategy and lose money. On top of that why should I do stock research for you?
>> D) In one of your article of How to become smart trader, you mentioned that why not earn more than 3% when you are fully Hedged. Can you please suggest is there any modified version of Strategy-1 which does have little risk but we can earn upto 4 to 5%. This because EMI for my personal loan would be Rs. 22700 & I am planning to earn 35000 from 8 lacs every month using conservative strategy.
Good question. Read that again – I said why not earn more than 3% when you are fully Hedged – NOT when you are NOT hedged. You are doing exact opposite of what I said or you are trying to understand what is not written there in that article.
I have given you the best possible strikes to chose for strategy 1. You know very well how to try to take more risk and try to make more – but that’s an experiment you need to do and that’s not my job. I have done enough research and got to those strike prices. Rest depends on the trader. If you are good trader you can always better that. How can I do research for you?
Now this is VERY Important thing he said that summarizes why you should not take a loan and trade:
“This because EMI for my personal loan would be Rs. 22700 & I am planning to earn 35000 from 8 lacs every month using conservative strategy.”
So you will trade in panic. You have no other choice but to make more than 22,700 per month or you pay money from your pocket. And this needs consistency – every month this person will have to make that amount. There cannot be a single month of losses. And if there is a loss of 20,000, then total money he needs to create a balance is 42,700 the very next month. To cover this up this guy will take even more aggressive trading involving Futures. Now he will get trapped – this 42k loss will convert to 1 lakh and then some more.
>> E) No one would advise taking personal loan to trade in stock market but still I am gaining confidence in earning consistently through nifty conservative strategy so what is your view on taking personal loan for trading conservative strategy in stock market?
Its good and nice to know that you are earning consistently through nifty conservative strategy – its meant for that. But it is meant to be traded with your money and with the money you do not need for next few years not months – so that you can compound. A loan is a money that is not yours and you will have to return it very soon. Even if successful you only get to keep the profit percentage of the trading. You cannot keep 10 lakhs with you – that you will have to return to your banker. All in all the money you make is not substantial as you keep only a percentage of the profits, not all profits. Compare this to the hard work you do – this is not significant. To me the Risk-Reward ratio is NOT in favor.
>> Request for your advice/comment on above points to fight back all my past losses in stock market & Your advise does really have lots of weight-age on my decision making.
Read this “fight back all my past losses” – were you fighting the stock markets when you were trading and losing? You lost the fight, now you want to fight back and win. This is called ego. No egoistic trader has made money trading the stock markets. Not just that. No egotist person has ever won a war, let alone the stock markets. Never trade with revenge in mind – stock markets have humbled 95% of traders and will continue to do so. The rest are highly disciplined traders making huge profits – but they am sure are very humble towards life as well as towards the markets.
Just be happy with the small profits you are making and forget the occasional losses – you can never win always – that is part of trading. If you can get to that figure of 20% return a year from your whole portfolio, remember that your returns are one of the best in this world during the current times.
Conclusion why traders fail to make money on borrowed capital or loan:
1. They are over-confident and think that they can never go wrong.
2. And therefore start taking very aggressive trades and start losing.
3. To recover losses they trade even more aggressively so that they not only recover losses but make huge profits.
4. They make more losses.
5. When they see that their ship is drowning and they cannot sail anymore – they declare bankruptcy or give all sorts of excuses to their bankers/lenders.
6. End is bitter for both the trader and the person/entity that gave them loan.
So the lesson is – Trade with your own money – part of which you can afford to lose. If you find success, only then increase your capital, gradually.
Have you ever taken a loan and invested in Stock Markets? If yes what as your experience?
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haha, few years back I had borrowed few lakhs to trade in F&O cause I thought my strategy had a good winning % and blah blah.. 8 months on.. my trading account was busted and I grumbled while I paid back every installment with the 13% interest!! Trust me it is a painful experience.. you feel like you are paying back for a sin! 🙂
Listen to Dilip, he’s spot on!
Can’t believe you did that. 🙂
I just hope it wasn’t such a big deal otherwise getting into debt is a trap that takes years to come out, and worst of the lot after credit card debt is personal loan debt. No tax relief, high interest rates and lots of stress to pay it back. Luckily you are now out of it. Anyway experiences good or bad always teach us something and am sure you are a better person now.
I learnt that a naive mind and the itch to trade is the perfect combination for disaster. I hope your readers pay heed to you; and like your course – they stay grounded and financially “sober”. 🙂
If you cant give surely for 24-36% returns in market even after this course.
Then why are you doing advertisement, spending money on adwards…
Why are you making people fool…?
Hello Mr. Arun,
Some of my customers are making more than 24-36% returns per year. Please understand that it depends a lot on the trader. Some are smart and some are not so smart – so the results will vary from user to user. That said I can assure you that people are making good profits from my course.
Just click here and see the testimonials of trades who have taken my course. They are all real, not fake, like its shown on other websites. I have done a copy paste from my customers’ email or mobile chat. How can you say I am fooling people?
The problem is you cannot guarantee returns in Stock Markets – still we all know Stock Markets have generated the best returns compared to anything else in the world. Some stocks double money in one year, but their management do not guarantee returns. Mutual funds do not guarantee returns but give a compounded return of average of 15% a year. Even debt funds do not guarantee but still give 9% returns. Only investment that guarantees returns is Bank Fixed Deposits and schemes in Post Offices – but we know what kinds of returns they generate. Whenever there is some kind of risks involved – the returns cannot be guaranteed.
Whenever there are fluctuations in the returns you cannot use the word guarantee. That is it. With proper risk management and hedging it is possible to generate 2-3% a month from options.
People who advertise and say 100% return a year (some even say a month) are the ones who are making fool of people.
For example just while writing this to you I got this SMS:
Last Week Our Clients Profited Rs.1.63 Lac on Our Stock Tips. To Subscribe Visit: Website & Mobile No.
The above is making fool of people because that’s simply not possible. But yes 2-3% a month return trading options is possible. This is what exactly I try to teach through my course.
Also remember that I only guide people through my course to do that. I do not offer any tips. But my intention is genuine and I work hard to achieve that. Rest I can only say that I do not know what traders are doing “after” taking my course. If they are not hedging properly or taking more risk than what’s written in the course then I am not responsible for the results. In that case they can make more than 3% a month or lose money but I have no idea.
I am also helping traders through my website for free. I do not advertise in my website. So essentially I DO NOT earn a single paisa for ALL those visitors who visit my site, read articles and exit without taking my course.
Do not forget that I have to pay for domain registration, hosting, bandwidth and advertising. On top of that there are some who ask me questions on options & futures – I reply and then I never hear ever again from them. My time also goes away without earning a penny.
Yes I have to advertise because otherwise people will never know about my site and keep losing money in stock markets. If I can help them make money trading then what’s wrong if I ask them a small fee to pay? Do not forget that I offer support for 1 year also. 5000 is nothing compare to the value the course offers. And what’s the point of a course that does not reach people and just sits in my website. So I advertise.
My profits are very small after the hosting and advertising cots but at least it keeps me motivated to keep helping traders in India and abroad. Yes I get visitors from all countries in the world.
If you still think I am fooling people then please read all the free strategies written here:
http://www.theoptioncourse.com/free-nifty-option-trading-strategies/
And let me know what your views are.
No grudges. This industry is full of cheats, so I can understand why you said that.
Also I see that you have not registered to get my 5 day free course. Please do so.
Many Thanks and Best Regards,
Dilip Shaw
Well said Dilip Sir, people think that stock market is like ATM and they can double the money in no time without even understanding it.. lots of people are there who think 5% per month is very less in stock market. Only an experienced and knowledgeable person only can understand the markets.. So you are well said.. Hope people should understand this.. Thanks for your great work..
>> lots of people are there who think 5% per month is very less in stock market.
Very true. Thanks.
It’s regarding Mr Arun who feels Dilip sir is fooling?
Firstly, Dilip sir has never asked any of us to join his course. He advertises in his website which is perfectly ok.
I am not yet his paid subscriber but yet vouch for his guidance.
As a student, I had contacted him about 6 months back and he told me to complete my studies and did not encourage me to join his course immediately.
He asked me to learn the basics about options and when I have money that I can loose without worrying , to start trading then only, of course after doing and practising the course.
After 6 months, I contacted him to ask about the course and he asked me to know the basics first. When I told him that I did not know from where to get the basics, he sent me a link where I am learning about the basics of options. (this was given to me by free) but i am sure, for such lucid explanation about options, others would have charged some amount of money.
So where did he make me a fool?
Not all are cheats in this world. There are some good people left here as well and Dilip sir is one of them.
Regarding fees, from pre historic times, we have always been paying Gurudakshina and so a small amount of money as fees just doesnt matter with the knowledge sir shares.
After all there are no “FREE LUNCHES IN THIS WORLD” and we will never value anything which is free.
Dilip sir— just keep doing what you are doing. We are proud of you.
Thank You Nabin. Hope you are reading the basics of options and learning. Remember that you have age on your side and that’s a HUGE plus. Compounding works great only when it gets started early. Do my course only when you are clear on basics of options and have at least 80k in your trading account. If you need any help, please email me. Best.
No offends Dilip. But yes if you are trading in option then your expectations are higher. I personally feel Dilip is thinking the way American think even today. They think in terms of rate of interest I.e. ROI.
India and its people are never taught from childhood about roi but we always hear about multiple times.
Those who want 24-36% year can trade in delivery of nifty 50 stocks. Keep buying and sellind after you get 3-5 returns. Most likely you will achieve target in t+2 days. Brokerage is low on delivery so you will keep most profit with you only. Never blame others or keep expecting from others. Be the change that you are looking for. Stay away from options trading. Be happy.
Yes, expectations may be higher nothing wrong with that. But the problem in life is that you not always get what you want. People do not understand that their needs are only 2-3% a month on money invested in stock markets. Especially those, who have a job and are looking to build a corpus with this investment. Of course those who do not have a job, 2-3% a month is less. But this is what I can teach and tell well in advance before anyone takes my course. I DO NOT lie like others. Leave it or take it. If you think by spending 5k once in your lifetime and learning how to make 2-3% a month from trading is really a high price to pay – please DO NOT pay for the course. You are most welcome. I cannot sell what I cannot teach and I will never lie to make money. Of course it’s a different issue, people whose expectations are to make 10% a month from trading are the ones losing money big time – every month.
History has it and NO ONE has ever done it – I mean 100% return a year for 10 consecutive years from trading NOT investment. Drop one name please.
But you will find many making 24-36% a year.
Be realistic and you will be happy.
You stock idea is good but the stock is NOT in your control and you cannot short stocks in cash – only buy. You may also get stuck in a stock for years then the whole investment goes topsy-turvy.
BTW ROI for me is Return on Investment that should be more than Rate of Interest offered by banks – that for me is a good trade.
Thanks for the comment though.
Best.
I was also trapped once…but thank God….I had taken a small amount…its very painfull to pay EMI for 18 months after loosing all money in 5-6 months…
Good Article….Keep Guiding….
Exactly Sanjaya this is what happens. The major issue is when the loan interest plays back in our minds while trading – and to beat that and still be in profits we trade very aggressively. Then it takes 6-10 months for the account to get totally wiped out. The math just doesn’t support but people do not realize until its too late. Nice to know it is now past. Thanks.
Dear Dilip Sir,
I have taken your course and found it very beneficial for Serious traders.
The way you still answer the queries over phone or whatsapp is tremendous.
Such comments from someone clearly shows how a trader who take responsibility of his profits and everytime he loses a trade its because of his mentor,friend,trading buddy or market or anybody else. First chapter of trading starts from the fact that its my money and I am responsible to multiply it or to lose it. Few people forget this out of frustration which is again an enemy of a trader.
Your strategies guides the way to earn consistent profits though you need to be disciplined and patient to earn them.
You never give false hopes and false promises. I am one of your proud subscribers cum fans who is very much satisfied n happy with your course.
This is also a great thing about you that you found out time to reply and appreciate his efforts to criticise you.
Great Dilip Sir…. Proud of you.
Warm regards
HARISH
Thank You Harishji.
>> First chapter of trading starts from the fact that its my money and I am responsible to multiply it or to lose it. Few people forget this out of frustration which is again an enemy of a trader.
Very well said indeed.
Sir,
I am in the stock market for last many years and have seen the changes. Previously it was controlled by some bunch of rouge traders.
And yes the stock market is full of foolish people, one of which sent you the mail as you enclosed.
These type of people don’t have the depth of knowledge and don’t know how to float in the market. They only know the money and thus they only lose money.
I am an avid reader of your mail. I am not taking your course till now but your advice is valuable and judgement regarding the market is very good.
Also you are the one of the rarest, who, after many days I have seen such a website along with a right direction for small investors and traders like me.
Thanking you and continue with your good work.
Regards
Ashis Bhar
ASHIS its not being foolish – its being ignorant. Once they lose money they understand. Time is a great teacher.
Dear Arun Ji ,
If you are experienced trader you will understand depth for this work done by dilip ji. For new traders its blessings . A serious trader will never trade casually nor comment same way .. anyways ..
P.S. – I am not fooling you nor i am fake .. 🙂 Yes i am his paid subscriber , but i am yet to apply them . For me his work which he offers for free is much bigger than paid strategies . Because it helps building right psychology .which you cant buy by paying any amount..
Thanks Subodhji. Much appreciated. 🙂
Dear Dilipjee,
I appreciate your patience and profound reply you gave to a silly question I feel sorry for the guy who hurt you.
Well friend (I don’t like to address you by other name than a true well wisher friend) I have been learning by your free knowledgeable service, In fact, I owe you for knowledge, awakening information and your Himalayan patience.
I was dis-heartened reading the mail you received and it made me write, As said even I am too a free knowledge seeker, I visit your site learn and exit, but I shall go for your course in later years.
Please keep up your selfless work and I thank you on behalf of other investors and traders.
Regards and take care
Vijay
Thank You Vijay. Nice to know you read my site and learn. Initially that was my objective. But unfortunately it was taking too much of my time without adding any value to our family. My wife objected and I had to start a service. Happy that people who have taken the course or not taken – both are happy. Keep reading. Thanks.
All i can say is Ignore such jerks and stay focused on your work Sir ;=)
Happy Sunday
Thanks Sandeep. Happy Sunday to you too.
Tremendous response from paid subscribers already tells the benefit of this option course. I am also paid subscribers and recovered my fees in 2 months with only 1 lot nifty options trade. So no doubt the course is awesome.
I have never seen subscribers coming forward with positive comments about course and strategies …this is the only exception compared to on lot of other tips provider sites.
Good work Dilip sir keep it up !!
Thank You. Nice to know you are making profits.